Don't Cleave On Me!

[cosmolinguist]

"So, you're not changing your name, then?" Dad asked over lunch. We'd just signed me (and Andrew ... not me and my dad, as the lady originally assumed) up for a marriage license; apparently this is how he found out that I'm keeping my name.

I didn't know that he didn't already know. I've had a couple of conversations about this around my mom, but I guess she hadn't told him. I always guess wrong when I assume that one of my parents has or has not told the other about some interaction that involved me and only one of them.

I didn't think this name thing was a big deal, but that my dad mentioned it at all (he even followed it up with "But if you have kids, you'll have to hyphenate"* or something) means it must be kind of a big deal for him.

And I don't think Mom much liked the idea either, now that I think about it: after it first came up in conversation, she later came up to me and said, "You know, you'll have to decide one way or the other about changing your name, because..." I was confused. "I already decided," I told her. That she was apparently In Denial about it probably means she didn't really like my choice and hoped it wasn't final.

Most of my reasons are more practical than philosophical—I don't want to have to replace everything that ever had my name on it, and everyone really does snicker when they realize what Holly Hickey sounds like—but also ... I dunno. I'm gonna be 4000 miles away from my family for the forseeable future; I thought it might be nice to keep the name that connects me to them.

I wasn't really hoping to be showered with gratitude for symbolically not-shunning them, but I at least thought they might find some appeal in the idea. Nope. I think they just want me to conform.

I probably wouldn't have thought about this any more except that last night I helped Mom with her Christmas cards for this year, since I have better handwriting more free time than she does. Almost always, I was writing Mr. & Mrs. Male-first-name on the envelopes, and it started to irk me.

For one thing, it meant that half the time I didn't know who these people were or why we're sending them a Christmas card. Sometimes when I had to ask my mom what that letter was or mention that I wasn't aware she knows anybody in Illinois, she'd say "That's where Peggy ended up" or "That's Larry and Pam, you know them." I don't need to know who the people are, as I'm only a secretary, but I'm curious. I have reason to think I know most of these people ... and in some cases I would if I got to see the women's names.

Sometimes it's because only the woman's familiar to me, but in other cases, I only know the names in pairs; that's how they are talked about. I know Raymond and Vivian, Randall and Frieda, Gary and Lois, John and Janis, Byron and Janet. But Randall died this summer, so it's just Frieda and I always think who on Earth is that? until I remember oh yeah, Randall and Frieda. I didn't even notice my brain has this system of recognizing people until it started failing me.

It seems that Bible thingy wasn't kidding when it said "A man ... shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh." (I looked it up. Eph. 5:31.)

My mom isn't quite as bad as my grandma, who actually referred to people—even friends of hers—as Mrs. Robert or whatever. But, in these Christmas cards, my mom's best friends were Mrs. Scott or Dean or Owen. I know she addresses the envelopes this way because she wants to be formal. But I find it much more rude than writing both people's names! Which, I have already decided, is surely what I am doing to do if I ever send Christmas cards.

I wondered what Mom will do if she sends me one next year; if I'm not changing my name, maybe she can't get by with Mr. & Mrs. Andrew Hickey. That in itself seems reason enough to be glad of my decision.

---

* I have warned them a few times that they shouldn't be on the lookout for babies from us: I'm ambivalent and Andrew's not fond of the idea. They didn't seem especially perturbed by this when I first mentioned it, which impressed me. It was a relief, too; I'm sure they'd be thrilled if they had a grandchild or two, but they're taking it well. At least for now. I think they're actually taking it well in a we'll-change-our-minds kind of way, but that's okay.

Comments

[misera.livejournal.com]

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

You'd not actually told *me* about this, let alone your father - last time the subject came up you were leaning towards taking my name. Not that it matters to me what you call yourself...

Oddly, in my experience, while there are lots of people whose names come in pairs, the pairing seems to be based on who the family knew first - Keith & Linda, Billy & Marie, Mabs & Alex, Lynn & John...

[cosmolinguist]

I hadn't? Damn. I wasn't trying to keep you in the dark; I do know that you don't care and thus must've thought you didn't need to be kept in the loop. :-) I don't remember there being a time when I really did want to be called Holly Hickey, but I'm sure you wouldn't tell me that if it weren't true.

Not all the pairings in my family are male-female (in terms of order, I mean; of course they're all male-female in content), but most of them seem to be. But I bet you and I will be Holly and Andrew, based on your which-one-we-knew-first thing.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

If you have a son, you really need to name him Ricky. Or Mickey, your choice.

[paper-crystals.livejournal.com]

You go and beat up all the little boys that make fun of Rickey Hickey when he reaches middle school, eh?

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Hells yeah.

[belladonnalin.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, that damn addressing of cards. My mom actually doesn't do it because she doesn't like recieving them that way ("I didnt' realize that, when I married your father I became a PART OF HIM, like an arm"). But my grandma actually thinks it's insulting not to do it.

Reminds me of the ladies who have gotten mad at me when I referred to them as "Ms. Smith" (or whatever) - "I'm MISSUS Smith, young lady." Oh, ooooohkay. I didn't want to insinuate that you'd be some kind of old maid or anything. Right. My mistake.

People are nuts, Holly. Nuts.

[classytart.livejournal.com]

I HATE being called Ms. I'm Miss. I'd not usually auto-correct people, but my pay-slip pisses me off with its Ms. They have that I'm Miss in writing.

(It's partly do do with how "Ms Liz" sounds, but not entirely.)

[cosmolinguist]

I used to be irritated by Ms, but now I like it. Men's titles have nothing to do with their marital status; why should mine? It's fine that the choices exist for those who want them, but I'm glad there's an ambiguous choice, for those who prefer that.

[(Anonymous)]

Not entirely. Should a man marry VERY young, he would drop the title of 'Master' and convert it to 'Mister'

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHA! I'm the opposite. If someone DARES call me Mrs. Windsorshire, I tell them, "That's MIZZ Beckingham-Windsorshire, thank you!"

I didn't get married so people could call me MRS. Ack!

Identity.

[xianrex.livejournal.com]

I was always blown away by the 1950s wives who referred to themselves as "Mrs. John Smith".

[xianrex.livejournal.com]

Or you *could* change your name. To something else. Like Siegfried Roy Harper.


My wife just added my name on to the end of hers. No hyphen. Like her former last name is a new second middle name.

[cosmolinguist]

Like Siegfried Roy Harper.

But Andrew seems to be already confused enough when it comes to Roy Harpers! I'd hate to make things worse for him. :-)

[classytart.livejournal.com]

Should/when I marry, I fully intend to take his name. I also intend to get an up-grade. My surname is crap. I only really identify with my first name.

I'll also become Mrs, rather than Miss.

However, anyone who refers to me as Mrs Husband'sname Surname will get a sound kicking.

[cosmolinguist]

I used to use "getting a new last name" as a reason I liked the idea of getting married. Mine's not spelled the way it's pronounced, and I was hoping for something easier. Hickey is that, but it also makes everyone tell me I'd have a porn star name, which I think I can do without. :-)

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

You wouldn 't remain a Miss after marriage. You could choose Mrs., or you could be a Ms. which is pronounced 'mizz'.

I'm a Ms. The thought of becoming a Mrs. turned my stomach, and still does. I'm no man's property, and couldn't handle the ties to the history of how Mrs. originated, even though few people think about that these days.

As for the whole Mrs. Husband'sname Surname thing, you'll get tons of mail addressed that way. Trust me on this. OMG! Will you! You'll get so damn tired of explaining it over, and over, and over... JEBUS!

It's been TWELVE YEARS, and we STILL get mail addressed the wrong way! It's like people are trying to MAKE me conform, even though I don't share my husband's last name.

Hang in there, and eventually, people will learn not to use Mrs. Husband'sname Surname.

[godplaysdice.livejournal.com]

Bah! I still hold that Holly Hickey is the greatest name in creation and you're missing out.

[cosmolinguist]

You have it then!

[davmoo.livejournal.com]

Most fathers, of the females I have known who did not change their names, were pleased and proud that their daughter wanted to keep their name. It figures your father would buck even that trend.

If I ever get married, its always been my intention for me to take *her* name (with the permission of both her and her father, of course). My father was a wife-beating drunken asshole (and is hopefully now rotting in hell), and I refuse to give any offspring his name. I used to be jealous of my cousins (the offspring of my mother's brother) because they got the name of my grandfather, a man who really cared about us.

[cosmolinguist]

I think my dad (and my mom) just want me to be normal. Maybe potential kids is a reason, but I think they're the type who find a girl not changing her name to be a bit elitist and attention-seeking and just difficult. It's a gimmick for intellectuals, not midwestern farm girls, y'know? Maybe I'm wrong; it's a very subtle vibe and I'm often wrong about the subtle vibes I think I'm getting from my parents. But that's my best guess so far.

[paper-crystals.livejournal.com]

"I think my dad (and my mom) just want me to be normal."

And after all these years they still haven't figured out that you aren't? Good lord.

[cosmolinguist]

I tried being normal, and even though it didn't work very well, I didn't have much else to be until my last year of high school, when I started making weird friends. In the last five years I've made great strides at distancing myself from normalcy, but they haven't really noticed. Partly because I don't want them to (I'd panic if they ever found out about my LiveJournal, or even most of my recent phone conversations), and partly because I'm pretty normal around them, and partly because they don't want to see anything else, so they just don't.

[paper-crystals.livejournal.com]

How would they react if they saw your lj? It isn't that bad. *thinks about the user info in my lj and if my parents ever saw that*

[cosmolinguist]

Well, recently, I've been talking about them in ways that aren't very nice! :-) Sometimes it's other things, though: LJ knows I'm not monogamous, but my parents do not and shall not, if I have anything to say about it. But mostly it's not that it contains unflattering rants about my family or covert information about me so much as it's a totally different side of me from that with which my parents are used to interacting—more complex, maybe? more intellectual, more ... well, weird I suppose, in their eyes at least—and I don't think they'd like it. And I don't think I'd like knowing that they know about it. If I were Walter Mitty, this would be my secret life.

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

And that would be so beautiful! Truly!

[sunshiny.livejournal.com]

Before I got married, I thought about not changing my last name. I ran it by my mom who gave me the weirdest look and pretty much told me I'd be crazy. I think my parents are just too conservative and traditional.

[cosmolinguist]

Usually I'm not this clever, but in this case I just stormed ahead without really asking my parents what they thought about it, so there wasn't much they could do. I don't know why I don't think of this tactic when I want something that actually matters to me...

[latelyontime.livejournal.com]

You are not going to have a hyphenated name then? the new and the old and the happy mixture?
My mother never changed her name after wedding...I dont see what's the big deal really!

[cosmolinguist]

the new and the old and the happy mixture?

Hm. Now you've got me wondering about that! I like the idea of the happy mixture, but don't like having such a long signature. :-) I can barely handle mine as it is. Hm. But, really, I don't see what the big deal is either.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Do what I do - just sign your name A squiggle (or H squiggle in your case)

[latelyontime.livejournal.com]

You can have a new signature with only initials. Or you can do what my cousin does - her signature has got nothing to do with her name! It actually is a word that she likes and in Sanskrit and she transcribes it into english. It is always a revelation to know that the signature is not meant to be a representation of your name but a representation of you as the person :)

[latelyontime.livejournal.com]

oh..and I just saw the new layout and i think this is fabulous. what style are you using?

[cosmolinguist]

The Boxer, with a transparent background. It'll actually only be like this for a few more days, I suppose, because my paid account's going to run out and I have no money with which to renew it. Ah well; it's been pretty while it lasted.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

My mother still likes to be formally addressed as Mrs John Grist- even though she's a widow.

Different generation......

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

Good for you! I fully support your decision, and wish more women would follow suit. To be honest, it completely turns my stomach, and greatly offends me, when women change their name to their husbands'.

Is this written in stone anywhere? No. So, why do they do it?

Then, they have to take it further, "I can't WAIT to me Mrs. Hapschat!" Hello? do they not realize the whole MRS thing came about because of PROPERTY RIGHTS?

'Mrs.' used to be, "Mr's." or "that which belongs to Mister," and, sorry, I just can't handle that.

You'll get mail that will be addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. StealthMunchkin," just because people are either ignorant, or they want things to look formal, or they are trying to force you to conform to what THEY think your name should look like.

You'll have to address the issue more than once, so patience will be necessary. People don't like to be told what your name really is. They want to address your mail however they feel they want to address it.

The correct and proper way to address mail to your house will be like this:

Holly__Lama
Stealth Munchkin

You should each get your own line on the envelope. The order of the names doesn't matter so much. He could be on top, just as easily as the bottom, but the point is---you do not share a line. Period.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Actually, Mrs is short for mistress, in the same way that the French change from Mlle (madamoiselle) to Mme (madame)... it has no connection to the possessive...

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

That's not what a professor of women's studies at my school said during a casual conversation one day.

It's possible she was wrong, but that's where I got the information.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

I checked a few places, but one is http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=m&p=23 (an online etymological dictionary). It says:

Mrs.
1582, abbreviation of mistress (q.v.), originally in all uses of that word. The pl. Mmes. is an abbreviation of Fr. mesdames, pl. of madame. Pronunciation "missis" was considered vulgar at least into 18c. The Mrs. "one's wife" is from 1920.

And for mistress:
mistress
c.1320, "female teacher, governess," from O.Fr. maistresse, fem. of maistre "master" (see master). Sense of "a woman who employs others or has authority over servants" is from 1426. Sense of "kept woman of a married man" is from 1430.

Most of the major dictionaries seem to give the same etymology. I honestly think your professor was wrong. There are many very valid reasons to not wish to label yourself 'mrs' anything (not least because one's marital status is no-one else's business), but that doesn't appear to be one of them. I do think the expectation for women that they change their title or surname is ridiculous, as is the assumption that children will be named patronymically (in fact I'm an advocate of gender-neutrality in language - I wish there were a gender-neutral pronoun in English that one could apply to humans, especially one that could be applied to known individuals...)

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

Yep. It certainly does seem that way, doesn't it?

Thank you for this.

I'm still not going to be Mrs., though! LOL

how bizaare!

[dmnsqrl.livejournal.com]

I always thought the Mrs John Smith thing was something my grandmother's generation did (and no, I'm not increcibly young and there's almost a generation and a half between my mother and I so it's not that)

The impression I had always gotten was that my Grandmother's generation did Mrs John Smith and my mother's did John and Amanda Smith. I didn't realize anyone of my mom's generation was still doing the Mrs John Smith thing.

Wow. But then I'm originally from New England and maybe it's different there from the Midwest.