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cosmolinguistI just got a new top that has straps that tie behind my neck. I can wear it without a bra with no real problem ... except that my nipples seem very excitable and intent on making their presence known.
I was unsure what to do about this problem--unsure how much of a problem it was, really. I have no idea what kind of perspective to have on these sorts of things, and for this I can only blame my mother.
I know she would hate my new top, because to her it presents two (well, actually three) untenable options: either a strapless bra (which I know she hates because she didn't want me to have one for my prom dress), no bra, or that horror of horrors, visible bra straps.
And I know I'm not that fastidious, but that leaves me with no idea what a, er, normal healthy amount of fastidiousness would be. I don't want to end up like Cartman who, after being tricked and humiliated by another kid in the normal nine-year-old-boy sorts of ways, exacts his revenge by killing the kid's parents and putting them into some chili, which he then gives to the kid. There's such a thing as overcompensating, you know?
I ignore a lot of things my mom cares deeply about, like shaving my legs all the time or wearing makeup, and this may be in that category ... but at the same time, I don't want passing ruffians to think they excite me so much my nipples stick out. Hence, I don't know how much to care. I worry about conformity, like I said in my last post.
It sounds silly now that I type it. But I think I just fell prey to the weirdness of nipples. Because they are weird, definitely. Or, more precisely, the prevailing attitude toward them is weird. What's the big deal about them anyway? I remember Andrew being surprised to learn that they were forbidden on television in that country I come from. We have a Nipplegate now.
But why are (female) nipples so "obscene"/interesting (depending on your point of view)? I suppose it's the interest some have that make it obscene to others; it seems nipples are one of those bad things that cause worse things, especially of the sort involving words like tumescent and engorged. Nipples Make Boys Think Naughty Thoughts!
My preferred method for dealing with the Nipple Situation my new top has brought upon me is to pretend they don't exist. I do like this method, but I still have such residual self-consciousness about my body that it's not always easy to do things I might like to for fear of how I'll look--especially whe it's so hot and it's hard to balance wearing acceptable amounts of clothing with not dying of heat exhaustion.
My current favorite story about that is![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
belladonnalin talking about going to see the guy who'll do her next tattoo, who was standing in his shop without a shirt or shoes or anything, and told her, "I'm not wearing any underwear. It was an extra layer I didn't need!" Heat messes with some of our usual concepts of modesty and self-disclosure, which I think find interesting, actually, though sometimes I'd quickly sacrifice the contemplation for air conditioning.
Since no one asked me, I'm stuck with contemplation. Which is all right anyway.
It's weird how a thing like nipples ends up making me consider how much I, while thinking of myself as a wild non-conformist, still conform to a lot of arbitrary, weird, or even detrimental (inasmuch as I fret about things like this when I could easily not do so with no real harm coming to me) stuff that I was taught ... or, in some cases, merely thought I was being taught: I sometimes overestimate my mom's conservativeness, anticipating her freaking out about things that, I later find, she doesn't.
But precisely because that self-consciousness and conformity doesn't come easily to me, I have to learn "what is expected of me"--and when it matters--by rote rather than just feeling it, as my mom (who makes lots of appeals to "plain common sense!" without realizing that what she really means is "everything I already think") does.
I was unsure what to do about this problem--unsure how much of a problem it was, really. I have no idea what kind of perspective to have on these sorts of things, and for this I can only blame my mother.
I know she would hate my new top, because to her it presents two (well, actually three) untenable options: either a strapless bra (which I know she hates because she didn't want me to have one for my prom dress), no bra, or that horror of horrors, visible bra straps.
And I know I'm not that fastidious, but that leaves me with no idea what a, er, normal healthy amount of fastidiousness would be. I don't want to end up like Cartman who, after being tricked and humiliated by another kid in the normal nine-year-old-boy sorts of ways, exacts his revenge by killing the kid's parents and putting them into some chili, which he then gives to the kid. There's such a thing as overcompensating, you know?
I ignore a lot of things my mom cares deeply about, like shaving my legs all the time or wearing makeup, and this may be in that category ... but at the same time, I don't want passing ruffians to think they excite me so much my nipples stick out. Hence, I don't know how much to care. I worry about conformity, like I said in my last post.
It sounds silly now that I type it. But I think I just fell prey to the weirdness of nipples. Because they are weird, definitely. Or, more precisely, the prevailing attitude toward them is weird. What's the big deal about them anyway? I remember Andrew being surprised to learn that they were forbidden on television in that country I come from. We have a Nipplegate now.
But why are (female) nipples so "obscene"/interesting (depending on your point of view)? I suppose it's the interest some have that make it obscene to others; it seems nipples are one of those bad things that cause worse things, especially of the sort involving words like tumescent and engorged. Nipples Make Boys Think Naughty Thoughts!
My preferred method for dealing with the Nipple Situation my new top has brought upon me is to pretend they don't exist. I do like this method, but I still have such residual self-consciousness about my body that it's not always easy to do things I might like to for fear of how I'll look--especially whe it's so hot and it's hard to balance wearing acceptable amounts of clothing with not dying of heat exhaustion.
My current favorite story about that is
belladonnalin talking about going to see the guy who'll do her next tattoo, who was standing in his shop without a shirt or shoes or anything, and told her, "I'm not wearing any underwear. It was an extra layer I didn't need!" Heat messes with some of our usual concepts of modesty and self-disclosure, which I think find interesting, actually, though sometimes I'd quickly sacrifice the contemplation for air conditioning.Since no one asked me, I'm stuck with contemplation. Which is all right anyway.
It's weird how a thing like nipples ends up making me consider how much I, while thinking of myself as a wild non-conformist, still conform to a lot of arbitrary, weird, or even detrimental (inasmuch as I fret about things like this when I could easily not do so with no real harm coming to me) stuff that I was taught ... or, in some cases, merely thought I was being taught: I sometimes overestimate my mom's conservativeness, anticipating her freaking out about things that, I later find, she doesn't.
But precisely because that self-consciousness and conformity doesn't come easily to me, I have to learn "what is expected of me"--and when it matters--by rote rather than just feeling it, as my mom (who makes lots of appeals to "plain common sense!" without realizing that what she really means is "everything I already think") does.
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 11:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 06:36 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 08:20 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 11:59 am (UTC)Yo mama...
Date: 2005-07-14 12:02 pm (UTC)I've also forgotten to shave my 'pits and my legs (have way to remedy the former, though, as fencing tonight, and so potentially embarassing...)
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 12:51 pm (UTC)On the other hand, yes, nipples do draw the eye to them, and when one is already struggling not to stare at breasts, one will lose the battle when the nipples appear. Breasts are fairly sexualized in our culture and erect nipples are one of those sexual things, like it or not. In fact, the nipples are the most sexualized part - behold how one may bare most of the breast in public but the nipple is always a no-no.
When I had my nipples pierced they were visible - nay, obvious - even in a bra, so I took to using band-aids to tape them down at work.
And it's true what you say. Nipples do make boys think naughty thoughts - but then, what doesn't?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 10:12 pm (UTC)That made me laugh. It's funny because it's true...
The Answer is simple.
Date: 2005-07-14 01:24 pm (UTC)http://www.laurensilva.com/nipple_covers_s/9.htm
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 01:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 01:27 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-07-14 09:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 05:27 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 08:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 09:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 09:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 01:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 03:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 02:49 pm (UTC)I've struggled with the same conformist/nonconformist dualism. The answer on which I've settled is based on the fact that I enjoy interacting with others. So that I have at least a chance at this, I temper my outward strangeness most of the time.
In the same way, if your nipples are showing, there is a subset of people you meet who, for one reason or another, will notice none of your other characteristics. Sometimes you may not mind, but I'm fairly confident that you would rather that people decide whether or not they like you based on something more personally substantial than the appearance of your chest.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 09:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 03:09 pm (UTC)Incidentally, it's been 90+ degrees here for the past week, and I've gone sans undies, because life is better that way when it's this hot. But I'm less weirded out when I do this as opposed to going braless, because it's not noticeable.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 09:53 am (UTC)I don't know where you're moving to, but if it's here, you're probably not going to have too many problems with it. Things like speed limits are given in miles. Your bottle of Coke will be ... what is it? ... 500 mL or something instead of 20 oz, but that's not a tremendous difference, and ti doesn't matter anyway. The temperatures given on weather reports are in celsius, but I didn't have too much a problem with that because I had some idea of how the scale worked thanks to my science classes. Oh, and people measure their weight in "stone," which is not metric but still weird. I'm about eight and a half! Whee.
So, anyway, I dunno, it's not too bad and can pretty easily get used to what is different, and it's not as if you are asked to convert things in your head a lot, at least in my experience. Foreign countries aren't really just complicated word problems, though they do seem like that sometimes. (I have more difficulty figuring out what size clothes and shoes to buy, and things like that. :-))
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 04:09 pm (UTC)Wear the top, be happy, and don't oppress your nipples. They have rights too, y'know!
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 09:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 01:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 04:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 09:42 pm (UTC)Exactly! I grew up in such a fascist state that I hardly realized that it was possible to not care. Now I'm finding how easy it is (I don't shave much either, especially my legs), I regret all that time I wasted in fretting.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 05:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 09:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-14 09:57 pm (UTC)bra talk!
Date: 2005-07-14 05:36 pm (UTC)Also I think you can get bras with changeable straps for halter necks. I went braless recently and found it very liberating.
Re: bra talk!
Date: 2005-07-14 09:51 pm (UTC)That made me laugh. Thanks. :-)
plus we brits like to let it all hang out anyway so it's unlikely that you will ever be the least dressed in any circumstance
The (relative) lack of concern I've found here for things like, oh, body hair is lovely. I feel much better about not being a perfect, plastic person with a tall skinny body that's good for fashion, because that's not expected here. I already said some stuff about why I like clothes in Britain, for this reason.
Re: bra talk!
Date: 2005-07-15 05:37 pm (UTC)Em oxo
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 06:37 am (UTC)hehe Great way to start the post *grin*
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 09:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 01:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 02:58 pm (UTC)Those are actually kind of cool reactions to get, especially in that combination.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-07-15 06:46 pm (UTC)I often do, and with just a tshirt or a tank top, and I have fairly large breasts as well, about 36C-almost-D. Doesn't seem to be a big deal.