I am the Emperor Fabulous!

[cosmolinguist]

I just read an article about Eddie Izzard in The Guardian and found myself with a bunch of things to say about it.

First, the writer marvels at the fact that Eddie Izzard showed up to the interview in jeans and facial hair. If it's not PC to make a big deal out of a transvestite wearing women's clothes,* shouldn't it be similarly uncool to make a big deal out of one wearing men's clothes? Commenting on how abnormal it is for Eddie Izzard to look like a guy serves to propagate the standard as surely as would commenting on how abnormal it is for a man to dress like a woman. Maybe that sounds like a crazy oversimplification; maybe it is, but it makes sense to me. Even if I have no philosophical leg to stand on here, though, I can say that I'm not particularly interested in his appearance, and there are better things to say about Eddie Izzard.

Second, the article's mostly about Izzard's pursuit of a film career, and it emphasizes that he's getting male roles. His reasons for this are more interesting than their presentation here might suggest. There's a pragmatic element to it: he points out, "There are transvestite parts, but they're all small cameo, weirdo, probably dies 20 minutes in." He adds, "It used to be gay and lesbian people would kill themselves. Now they can survive, but transgender people are still hanging themselves 20 minutes in. Or murdering people."

Our culture is very slowly getting better at this accepting-sexual-minorities thing, but we still have a long way to go. This is in his comedy too; he talks about being an "executive transvestite," to distinguish him from the "weirdo transvestites". It's funny, because he's funny, but it's a good point too. I've never seen anything but weirdo-transvestites in films and things. I suppose portrayals of non-weirdos may exist, but I fear they'd be in the creepy postmodern style that has been absorbed by the kind of people who now say they're vegetarian or bisexual because it's cool.

Third, one of the themes the article attempts to convey is that Eddie Izzard is good at finding similarities in disparate things, "finding connections between apparently random ideas, stringing them together with a logic all his own". Okay, fine.

He attributes this to his dyslexia. "I didn't know Eddie Izzard was dyslexic," I mentioned to Andrew. He didn't either, but said it didn't surprise him. I knew it wouldn't. Andrew knows stuff about dyslexia; it's common in his family, as are some other things that he thinks might be related. I can't remember what they all are at the moment, but I think one of them is an affinity for making connections between things that don't seem connected.

Just last night we were talking about people who can talk interestingly about things. It's a trait we like about each other (to varying degrees) but noteworthy in people like Garrison Keillor, who tells rambling stories well, and Neil Gaiman, for the comic he contributed to this book. Andrew made me read that comic (you can read it too—I recommend it, because besides being illustrative of my point here, it is good) and when he asked me what I thought about it, I said "it sounds like me." He thought I was saying I am like the crazy Roman emperor, but actually I meant something even more pretentious: that I am like the author. I'm not really much like Neil Gaiman at all (besides having lived in England and Minnesota!), but I recognize this "trying to tell a story but getting distracted but usually getting around to it, eventually" method. But as with Garrison Keillor, or Eddie Izzard, the tangents along the way are at least half the fun of the story. I'm not in their league, but having anything at all in common with them makes me happy.

See, there I go, rambling about something tangential to my point. The point is that our bodies are adapatable, and if they're bad at something, they often try to find a way to get around it. Thus, dyslexic people may have trouble interpreting some things that "normal" people don't think twice about, but in an attempt to understand those things, they can come up with really interesting ways of thinking about the world. Obviously this isn't the only way to have a creative point of view, but it is a possible way.

Eddie Izzard attributes this to dyslexia, but the writer seems to attribute it to his sexuality. As a transvestite, the article seems to say, he's allowed to talk about lipstick and airplanes, "girly" and "blokey" things! If it's not obvious by now, I agree with Izzard's take and not this one. I'm allowed to talk about lipstick and airplanes, and still be a person of boring sexuality ... though admittedly sometimes it's not the same for men. Women can wear fairly masculine clothes and no one thinks much of it but the reverse is not true. Replace "wear masculine clothes" with "have 'masculine' interests" and the sentence still works. This trendy "sensitive guy" stuff may say differently, but it's not the same. For instance, I've always been interested in some stereotypically boyish things—science, sports, guitars, computers—and I'm far from the only girl to do so, but there are few enough that merely displaying any interest or knowledge makes me interesting to some of the guys who like those things. Whereas a guy who likes to shop or knit or dance ballet would likely be thought gay and taunted, or something. So perhaps being a transvestite might give a guy more leeway to talk about "weird" subjects, but that's only because he's already seen as so weird that there's not much left that'll bother anyone.

The article left me with the vague impression that the writer doesn't actually like (or even grok) Eddie Izzard, or transvestism, or something. I've worked really hard on trying to explain myself, and I don't know how well I've done, but I think I've had enough writing and I might have to go watch Dress to Kill now.

---

* It just occurred to me that "transvestite" is a word I'm used to associating with men who wear women's clothes, and not the other way around. Yet I suppose there are women who like to wear men's clothes ... are they called "transvestites" too? (In which case, the sentence this is footnoting would be bothersome in failing to take that into consideration.) Or are they just butch women? Of course, women can wear most of the same clothes as men do already; they have jeans and suits and whatnot themselves. This is a subject about which I'm not really qualified to be speaking.

Comments

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

I know a couple of female transvestites - yes, even with the blurring of the lines as to what's "men's" clothes, it can still be done, it just takes more work - and now that you meantion it, I can't say I've ever specifically heard them refer to themselves as such, but that may just be because "transgendered" is the buzzword these days.

[cosmolinguist]

I thought there was a difference between being a transvestite and being transgendered. I mean, I realize that it's part of being transgender, but I thought that was the extent of it. However, short of having a couple of friends who are transgendered, and liking Eddie Izzard, and seeing movies mentioned in other comments, I know nothing, and thus tend to defer to the judgment of people who sound like they do.

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

I never know anything, I just try to sound like I do. Anyway, I know there is a difference, although I've always been fuzzy on where exactly the line is, and I've always had the feeling that a good many people who use the terms are too. I'm just saying I've never heard a woman who dresses as a man calling her/himself a transvestite.

[cosmolinguist]

Anyway, I know there is a difference, although I've always been fuzzy on where exactly the line is, and I've always had the feeling that a good many people who use the terms are too.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I'm just saying I've never heard a woman who dresses as a man calling her/himself a transvestite.

Fair enough. Thanks for helping to assauge my curiosity.

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

As near as I can tell - and I'd be about as far from an authority as one could get, since I consider any discussion of gender as something binary nothing more than silly semantics - "transgendered" is an expansion of the concept of "transvestite;" the implication being that the characteristics go past basic fashion choices, and for whatever reason, all the women I know who dress as men prefer that one. I wonder if it's just that dressing as a man is so much trickier for a woman than the reverse? or if I'm just talking out my ass. Which is likely.

[j4.livejournal.com]

AIUI, 'transgendered' is identifying as the opposite gender, 'transvestite' is wearing the clothes of the opposite gender. I mean, there are men who wear women's clothes because they like being men-wearing-women's-clothes, and there are men who identify as women (and wearing women's clothes is often part of building that identity).

Wearing the clothes of the opposite gender may not be necessarily a part of identifying as that gender, though -- after all, most women are quite happy to wear unisex clothes while still identifying as female. (Of course, it's quite hard to dress in clothes which are unambiguously male these days, so I guess female transvestites -- who do indeed exist -- have to work at it a bit harder!)

This (http://gaylife.about.com/cs/trannie/a/trans.htm) may help on the definitions.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Transgender is a wider issue. A transvestite wants to *dress* like a member of the opposite sex, while still remaining the sex they are. Someone transgendered wants to *be* a member of the opposite sex...

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

Okay, but that still doesn't explain why the men I know who wear dresses are transvestites and the women who wear fake moustaches are transgendered. But then, maybe I just don't know the right people.

[j4.livejournal.com]

A couple of possible points (I hope you don't mind me butting in):

1. A moustache is fairly unambiguously male. It's hard to express unambiguous maleness in clothes alone, because most 'male' clothes are acceptable for women to wear these days. Fewer women seem to feel the need/desire to wear 'male' clothes than men do to wear 'female' clothes -- perhaps because clothes play a greater part in the social construction of femaleness than that of maleness, so biologically female people who identify as 'male' will seek other ways to construct that gender.

2. IMHO a moustache is more like body modification than dress. Do the men you know who wear dresses also have breasts?

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, nor am I transgendered, nor do I regard myself as a transvestite (I suspect my grandparents would be shocked by the idea that I prefer to wear a tux than a slinky dress if I'm going to a black tie event; but these days it doesn't really seem terribly transgressive ... mind you I only do it because all the boys I know look better in dresses than I do).

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

a moustache is more like body modification than dress. Do the men you know who wear dresses also have breasts

Okay, I'll give you that (although yes, I do know a few men who've gone so far). And like I said somewhere else in this thread, I'm certainly no expert either - I dress in "women's" clothes somewhat regularly, but not so much that I'd identify myself by it or anything.

[soltice.livejournal.com]

It's true that transvestism is much more difficult for women. The only *real* example remaining is to wear a men's suit. Simply having your hair cropped short or wearing pedstrian men's clothing would illicit the label of "Lesbian", rather than "Cross-dresser".

It used to be gay and lesbian people would kill themselves. Now they can survive, but transgender people are still hanging themselves 20 minutes in.

Exception that I know of is the film Boy's don't Cry.

Or murdering people.

Silence of the Lambs, Psycho, and several television series including CSI: Las Vagas.

Of course, it doesn't help that the last estimates for suicide rates among the Transgender are 60%.

[soltice.livejournal.com]

The CSI one was an FTM, I might add.

There was also an episode of Law&Order with an MTF, now that I recall.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

The only *real* example remaining is to wear a men's suit.

Or painting on facial hair - unless they're just trying to go for that mediterranean look. ;)

It used to be gay and lesbian people would kill themselves. Now they can survive, but transgender people are still hanging themselves 20 minutes in.

Exception that I know of is the film Boy's don't Cry.

'To Wong Foo, thanks for everything, Julie Newmar', 'Priscilla, Queen of the Desert', 'Hedwig and the Angry Inch', 'The Rocky Horror Picture Show' (although Frank does die at the end) and 'Connie and Carla' just off the top of my head.

[soltice.livejournal.com]

Damn... I forgot most of those. Bad Tess.

[cosmolinguist]

Simply having your hair cropped short or wearing pedstrian men's clothing would illicit the label of "Lesbian", rather than "Cross-dresser".

People have thought I'm a lesbian because of this. Not often, but it has happened and it amused me.

But not nearly as much as I'm amused by the fact that Jenn, who first saw me with short hair and a Vikings sweatshirt, thought I was a guy until I spoke.

[cosmolinguist]

Of course, it doesn't help that the last estimates for suicide rates among the Transgender are 60%.

Are you saying that, considering this, it's not as surprising or out-of-place to have TS characters kill themselves in fictional stories? It's an interesting point. I mean, obviously it's no reason to have them show up as "weirdos" in art (when they show up at all), but it is interesting.

[soltice.livejournal.com]

It's not surprising to me Holly. I haven't met many trannies that haven't at least considered it at one point and time.

[cosmolinguist]

I know, but in films and things, dying off early tends to be seen as a way to get rid of an unimportant character while still being able to say you had [trendy minority of the moment] in your film or whatever. It's not the most respectful way to deal with those minorities, obviously, and I can see that members of them wouldn't like this sort of treatment, for that reason. But your point that this could easily be in fact a realistic portrayal of the group surprised me—though it seemed obvious after a second's thought, because I know you're right about the tendency to suicide. (I suppose that was also true of real-life gay people back when they were killing themselves in the first 20 minutes in films.)

Of course, this doesn't mean there are no other stories to tell about trannies, and, as with gays and lesbians, that fact should slowly emerge. Which would be A Good Thing; true diversity in art always is.

[strangeidea.livejournal.com]

Heh heh... transvestites: the "token black guy" of the 21st century.

[cosmolinguist]

Precisely. Very modern and impressive, aren't they?

[soltice.livejournal.com]

The problem is, that most who are successful at the attempt, die with little to no indication left to family members that their motive was gender dysphoric depression.

[cosmolinguist]

Yes, but in a film, the audience would know. :-)

[chuck-lw.livejournal.com]

I'll definitely have to investigate this topic. In the story I'm working on in my spare time, one of the main characters is my first ever transgendered character (I'm wholly unqualified to create such a character, but I've never let lack of qualifications stop me before.:-P). There'll be some question as to whether he's a hero or villain in the story, plus he will entertain thoughts of suicide or he'll try to get other people to kill him, but that'll wind up inciting things he never expected.

Oh, I just finished reading Invisible Monsters by Chuck Palahniuk. There were all sorts of issues involving transgenderism that I felt utterly wrong for laughing at, but it was definitely an excellent read.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just finished reading Invisible Monsters by Chuck Palahniuk. There were all sorts of issues involving transgenderism that I felt utterly wrong for laughing at, but it was definitely an excellent read.

Really? I read it a few years ago, and thought it was an utter waste of time. Ovely simiplistic, with no real plot or insights, just a few vague nags at pop culture.

[chuck-lw.livejournal.com]

The nags at pop culture were familiar thing I'd seen before, but other factors hit my funny bone just right, so that's what kept me reading.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

I'm currently plotting a superhero comic for when dumbangelcomic finishes, in which the main character is a woman when she's fighting crime - and a stereotypical Wonder Woman-esque one, but a man in hir secret identity (as part of the transformation between identities s/he undergoes a physical transformation). Depending on how I do it it could either be great, or get me death threats from EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD. Either of which would be nice.

[chuck-lw.livejournal.com]

>I'm currently plotting a superhero comic for when [info]dumbangelcomic finishes, in which the main character is a woman when she's fighting crime - and a stereotypical Wonder Woman-esque one, but a man in hir secret identity (as part of the transformation between identities s/he undergoes a physical transformation).

Hooray! Sounds like a good idea already.:-) I imagine the villains might have a difficult time trying to find out her secret identity using conventional methods.


>Depending on how I do it it could either be great, or get me death threats from EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD. Either of which would be nice.

Indeed. Getting everybody to hate you is a great way to unite the World...for a little while, anyway.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Of course, women can wear most of the same clothes as men do already; they have jeans and suits and whatnot themselves.

One of the many ways in which society is biased against men. Women can wear anything, and people can't say anything, men have much more ridgid constraints. Sad really, in this day and age.

As an aside, while Eddie Izzard does dress up as a woman for his stage show, he is not IIRC, properly a trannie. He considers himself to be a gay man, and reacts to the outside world as a man. He's just an actor who found a good gimmick.*

*unless I'm confusing him with somebody else.

[cosmolinguist]

I think you are, in fact, confusing him with someone else. It doesn't sound much like him. He's the one who says "most transvestites fancy girls" ("so you can say that: 'most transvestites fancy girls!' 'who told you that?' 'a transvestite told me that!') and the stories he tells on the subject are all about girls. They could be made up stories, of course—it's stand-up comedy—but I don't see why he'd bother to make up stories about women if he liked men. And in the article I linked to here, he claims to have known from a young age that he liked women's clothes, etc. He's not transgendered (which is what I'm used to "trannie" being short for, but I don't know how you're using it here), but I thought that was a different thing from being a transvestite.

[j4.livejournal.com]

In every interview with him that I've read/heard he's made it clear that a) he is straight, and b) he doesn't want to be a woman -- he just wants the "total clothing rights" that women already have (which you mention above). And in his comedy I don't think the transvestism comes across as gimmicky at all; okay, he gets some comic mileage out of people's reactions to it ("bloke in a dress!") but that's what observational comedians do -- they make comedy out of the stuff that happens to them!

I'd be interested to know what you regard as the "many" other ways in which society is biased against men.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

And in his comedy I don't think the transvestism comes across as gimmicky at all; okay, he gets some comic mileage out of people's reactions to it ("bloke in a dress!") but that's what observational comedians do -- they make comedy out of the stuff that happens to them!

Oh, I didn't mean gimmick in a bad way, rather that that's the thing he's known for.

[madscience.livejournal.com]

Yet I suppose there are women who like to wear men's clothes ... are they called "transvestites" too?

No, they're called "practical." And I love 'em. :o)

[evilfuzzymonste.livejournal.com]

(Linked here by chuck_lw): I'm on the committee for my school's G.S.A., and we've been meaning to do a poll on the subject of terminology, aka the "Gay Alphabet." I'll let you know when we get the results.