If you don't care about punctuation you can skip this. I'd recommend it, in fact.

[cosmolinguist]

Now, I'm not as certain of this as I am of other rules of grammar--for example, the one about the difference between its and it's.

But that's why I'm writing this the way I am: anecdotally istead of as a public service announcement with a big Achtung! or something at the top. That is what its and it's deserve: I'm sure of that rule and I'm bothered by its general disregard and abuse. But hyphens ...

Hyphens seem a tricky thing to me; you didn't necessarily hear about them in whatever passed for your English classes, and you don't have people likely to shout at you when you use them incorrectly, as you might if you use the wrong it(')s. (Not that most of you are likely to be shouted at for that, either (which is why the problem persists, I am sure!).)

Consider the phrase 'high school.' It's nice enough, usable in such worthy sentences as

I graduated from high school four years ago.

(Which I did, coincidentally enough.) But then, there's this sentence:

For the four years before that, I was a high-school student.

True as well, that, but look! 'High school' did not have a hyphen before, but now it does.

That is, of course, because 'high school' was a noun the first time, but now it's acting as an adjective, modifying 'student.' And since it's two words but one adjective, there's a hyphen to indicate that those previously separate words are connected into one modifier.

(I even had a hyphen in 'previously separate,' before deciding that they're better off as legitimately separate words themselves, since 'previously is an adverb describing 'separate,' which is the adjective describing 'words.' But now I'm beginning to wonder again ... )

That's the problem with me; I think everything should be connected. (Well, that's one of the problems, another being that once I start thinking about grammar I second-guess everything and soon I'm nearly incapable of writing a sentence without being paralyzed by indecision ... but in a fun way. Really. I wouldn't do this to myself if I didn't like it. And no fair speculating on my masochistic tendencies behind my back.) That's why I use lots of semicolons in my writing, as I just did in the last sentence. (Well, the last sentence before the parentheses, and things in there don't count, because I said so. (And I certainly am using a lot of parentheses today, which is only going to make this harder to follow, I know--I mean, you'd never know that I wanted this paragraph to be about semicolons, would you? Perhaps I'll start again.))

That's the problem with me; I think everything should be connected. That's why I use lots of semicolons in my writing ... as I just did in the last sentence! (There, that was easy. And much better this way, I think.) I'm really convinced that all words and ideas are connected to all the others, and if they're not they should be. Why have previously separated words when you can have previously-separated words? Never mind distance and detachment!

This is the problem with people who care about punctuation; they're all raving lunatics. But I don't know which of these is the cause and which is the effect. A plausible argument could be made either way, I think.

Anyway, never mind the raving bit. I had a point up there, about two words acting as one adjective, remember? That's the real reason I'm convinced that these hyphens are a good idea, and that's the reason I get annoyed whe I see 'regular sized man' ... but then I wonder if I'm the only person who thinks it should be 'regular-sized man.' I wonder if it's one of those 'either way is correct, it's just a matter of preference' kind of things (even if 'correct' here is just that descriptive-grammarian kind of correct that says whatever people do is valid). I wonder if I really am the only person who thinks as I do about these hyphens. Then I wonder if I should shut up about this.

And then I'm sure of it. I should.

Comments

[offensive-mango.livejournal.com]

This post has made me love you more deeply than you could ever imagine.

[cosmolinguist]

Then some good has come from it after all! Thank you.

[paninogirl.livejournal.com]

You have more suitors on LJ than I could ever hope to have in a lifetime! ;)

Have you been wearing sex spray or something? :)

[cosmolinguist]

Now, now, Rachel. Love for grammar need not be sexual.

[offensive-mango.livejournal.com]

In fact, it would be bloody weird if it WERE.

[hardvice.livejournal.com]

I dunno, there's something disturbingly erotic about a well-placed modifier, or an unexpected and slightly naughty gerund.

*fans self*

[cosmolinguist]

You have a point there...

[paninogirl.livejournal.com]

Haha, everyone's getting a sexual rise from misinterpreting my comment.

I was trying to express that guys are expressing their love for you left and right on LJ, oftentimes when you write about the most non-sexual of topics.

I guess I should get some pointers from you... ;)

[cosmolinguist]

Ah, but offensive_mango is a girl. :-)

[paninogirl.livejournal.com]

Oh...guys AND girls then... ;)

[miss-newham.livejournal.com]

There's a chapter on hyphens in Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss (referred to by my Basic Skills class as "That crazy woman", so you may be right there). Don't tell me you haven't read it? I refer you to page 168: 'One of the most profound things ever said about punctuation came in an old style guide of the Oxford University Press in New York. "If you take hyphens seriously," it said, "you will surely go mad."'

[cosmolinguist]

You should know I've read it. :-) I mean, I know you don't memorize everything in my journal--nor does anyone! nor should anyone! especially me!--but it was only a couple weeks ago. :-)

I guess I'm just proof that that old style guide is correct.

[miss-newham.livejournal.com]

I apologise! It did seem the kind of thing that you would have read... And in fact I do remember alarming amounts of what you and other people have written, but the dull truth is that I was away when you wrote that and missed a few friends' pages.

[cosmolinguist]

It's all right. :-) Don't feel bad about not knowing and not having read everything; everybody's guilty of that.

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Or a couple *of* weeks ago for those of us who speak English :-p

[cosmolinguist]

I do envy the Germans, I only know a little of their language but it's cool.

And the rule does make sense, really.

With all other words, an apostrophe can be used to indicate possession ... See, this isn't completely right. That rule doesn't apply to pronouns. You wouldn't write her's (though I've seen instances where someone has); it's hers. He, she and it become his, hers and its. Whereas It's is just a contraction of 'it is' (or 'it has'). Just as she's is a contraction of 'she is/has'.

I don't think there's anything to this argument of gender the fact that s's are used for possession. As is pointed out by the author off the aforementioned Eats, Shoots and Leaves, no one wrote 'Elizabeth'r Riegn.' Plus the same convention is followed in German (though none of the possessives have apostrophes there, yet another case of superior thinking, perhaps!) and thus might just be a Germanic thing.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

It's at time like this that you have to envy the Germans, with their ability to make up new composite words whenever they need to.

Erm, so does English really. Bookshelf, pancake, paperback, ballpoint, etc... They're called compound words.

How about multiple hypenated compounds in one phrase

[uxsquared.livejournal.com]

For example: jack-knife tractor-trailer accidents

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah, but it's not the same. There are a lot more, a lot longer, and a lot more convoluted compounds in German. You wouldn't call a refrigerator a 'cool closet' in English, but you could in German. I remember my friends studying for a German test and realizing that the word for the trunk of a car is 'place for suitcases' and the safety belt is a 'man health guard.' That sort of thing is really fun. Moreso than 'ballpoint.'

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

You wouldn't call a refrigerator a 'cool closet' in English,

No, but you might call a freezer an 'icebox' (of course, seatbelt - which is what I assume you mean when you say safety belt - is also a compound word)

But yes, the Germans are quite good at it. Including taking English words, and bastardising them wonderfully (eg going from one's teens to ones twens. Or a book that doesn't reach bestseller status being 'ein steadyseller')

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

I've never seen high school with a hyphen. I don't it's a stylistic difference, probably regional. Some words (such as e-mail and email) havn't yet been set. I think the important thing is to stick to the same one in your writing, and keep it consistant.

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah, I thought of mentioning that too; it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the lack of hyphens is part of the same 'British laxness' that omits periods (or 'full stops,' so Andrew doesn't have to correct me and yell at me) in abbreviations, and things like that.

As for e(-)mail, I tend to use the hyphen--I like the way it sets 'mail' off so it's recognizable, and you can tell it's 'ee-mail' and not 'ehm-ale', as my friend the evil grapefruit says sometimes to be silly. I just think it looks silly as email, myself.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

I agree. It also makes the pluralization of es-mail possible.

technically.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

It should be 'regularly sized man' as sized is an adjective altering man, and thus regular(ly) is an adverb as it alters sized.

Unless 'sized' is a past tense verb (he is a man who has been sized) but then regular is still modifying how he was sized so would still be adverbial.

Re: technically.

[cosmolinguist]

Or unless, as I said, it's the combination of both words that's describing the size of the man, and that's why I think it needs a hyphen.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Thinking more about regularly sized men recalls for me a pet peeve of english, and one that would solve this issue easily.

There are no middle words. Tiny man clearly needs no hyphen because it's one word. Huge man too, needs no hyphen. But there is no single word for a man of average size. Thin man, fat man, but no word for a man of average weight.

In English, there are very very very few descriptive words for things that are down the centre. And it bugs me.

[cosmolinguist]

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of it. And it would solve my problem with the hyphen in this case.

Andrew says it should be 'middleweight. Like in boxing.'

[karaksindru.livejournal.com]

Clearly 'regular' is modifying/specifiying which 'size' the man is, so they should be separate words.

Also, I love you, and miss you every day.