Pandas and candy

[cosmolinguist]

I remember my illustrious roommate mllesarah coming back from her spring break trip to London all excited about a book called Eats, Shoots & Leaves. It's a book about punctuation*, written by a British person, and thus was either not available in the states yet or not cool in the states yet; I can't remember which Sarah said it was. But I found it here; Andrew's mom (he'll tell me he 'doesn't have a "mom" ' but I'll hit him when he does) has the book so I've been reading it.

It's a good book, though I think the writer could've done a bit better on colons and semi-colons and Andrew The Pedant says there are some slight factual errors in there ... but still I recommend it if you're the sort of person who does things like read boks about punctuation for fun, because there are also some cool things.

Of course, my idea of 'cool things' is a bit slanted. One of the cool things is that the example sentences mention a candy called Opal Fruits, which I'd not heard of before ... but a later sentence mentions that the name was changed to Starbust.

Knowing that one of Andrew's pet peeves seems to involve the Americanisation of names for candy, I had to say, 'I didn't know Starburst used to be called something else.'

It made him say 'yeah, it used to be Opal Fruits!' and from there he was off, mostly ranting about how the British names--like Treats and Marathon--are better than the American names--like M&Ms and Snickers, respectively.

This time I asked him about Marathon. Why would it be called that? He said, 'Because they're big and long, like a marathon! And they give you energy, so you can run one! That's a sensible name, not like "Snickers." Which just means "to laugh derisively," and why would you want people to laugh derisively at your chocolate bar as they go to buy some proper, British-named chocolate?!'

---

* Its title is actually the punchline of a joke that relies on punctuation, which goes more or less like this: A panda walks into a bar and orders a sandwich. After he finishes it he takes out a gun, fires a couple of shots into the air, and goes to the door. Just before he walks out, the bartender asks him why he did such a thing. The panda tosses him a rather ungrammatical wildlife brochure and says, 'I'm a panda. Look it up.' The bartender does and finds 'Panda. Large black and white bear-like mammal. Eats, shoots and leaves.'

Comments

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

I do *not* have a 'mom'; this is a simple fact. And for someone writing about punctuation, you seem to have a rather tenuous grasp of it: the last part should be punctuated thusly:

"Because they're big and long, like a marathon; and they give you energy, so you can run one. That's a sensible name, not like 'Snickers'; which just means 'to laugh derisively'. And why would you want people to laugh derisively at your chocolate bar as they go to buy some proper, British-named chocolate?'

[stealthmunchkin.livejournal.com]

Except with a " at the end instead of ', of course.

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

That's a sensible name, not like 'Snickers'; which just means 'to laugh derisively'.

That's clearly wrong - the second bit isn't a clause.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

...tenuous grasp of it: the last part...

Should that not be a semi-colon?

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

That's the cleanest version of that joke I've ever heard.

Eats, Shoots & Leaves got a right slagging in the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/?040628crbo_books1). Apparently her grammar is sloppy, and the US edition (which *is* out) hasn't been altered to take into account transatlantic grammar differences.

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Actually, the whole point was not smoothing out transatlantic differences. This is a book about BRITISH punctuation. To fine tooth comb it to change everything would make it into an entirely different book.

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

But why would an American want a manual on how to do British commas?

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

Because it's not a manual on how to do British commas. Its a book of anecdotes about people not doing British commas properly.

Why would a car driving Xtian want to read a book about Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenace? Why would a non-kinky person want to read a book about Skipping to Gemmorrah?

Because it's interesting. And if they don't, then it won't sell. But they couldn't have changed the book's grammar without changing the book entirely.

[amuchmoreexotic.livejournal.com]

Fair enough - I've only leafed through it briefly in Borders. Is that New Yorker bloke missing the point, then?

[angel-thane.livejournal.com]

I can't say for certain, I've not read the article yet. But I'd guess probably yes.

That's what happens when you're stuck in Manhatten. ;)

[cosmolinguist]

I just read that article and I think the guy missed the point entirely. Yes, I understand that writing a book about grammar means you probably have to deal with the fact that people are going to go over its grammar with a fine-tooth comb, but I still think whining and pointing out every nitpicky thing is a bit extreme.

And some of the points he makes aren't even good ones. Yes, she omits the serial comma (even then he shouldn't be using the title as an example of that, since the double meaning of it depends on there not being a comma there) but she also says that it is the British custom to do so. The New Yorker guy accuses her of 'departing from punctuation norms' because of 'British laxness'--which I find ridiculous: a New Yorker critising an Englishwoman for how she writes English is absurd. That is worse than 'an American lecturing the French on sauces,' and wores even than the sort of silly person who'd make such an analogy.

Sorry, I don't mean to complain at you for that horrible review; all you did was point it out to me and I know you haven't even read the book. But also I just wanted to say that I agree with the things angel_thane has been saying about how it's possible for an American to read this book and enjoy it--I know because I am American and I did enjoy it...as I also enjoyed Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance without knowing anything about zen or motorcycles. (But then, someone who really wanted to learn about zen or motorcycles probably wouldn't be reading that book anyway, just as the New Yorker who really wanted to learn how to use his semicolons wouldn't pick up this book, but would just get The Elements of Style or something.

[parakleta.livejournal.com]

I just read that column and I have to say they do have a few good points. I read the book and did find it's explanation of how to use punctuation, and the way it was used in the book itself, somewhat inconsistent. After reading the book I came away feeling that it had merely stirred the pot, without actually adding anything to it, and if I were to actually try and learn something about punctuation I would have to consult some other source.

[cosmolinguist]

I don't see how it sould've been altered; I, an American, read it perfectly well. In several cases where they differ, she mentioned the British and American conventions. Though i wouldn't have 'given it a rigt slagging,' I will admit that the book definitely leaves something to be desired ... though the idea of a book about punctuation really appeals to me, if it's a good one.

[cosmolinguist]

i don't even like Starburst, but then I'm biased against chewy candy anyway.

[toastedtuna.livejournal.com]

I so want to read that book!

Opal Fruits? WTF?!! Where does the opal come from? Treats instead of M&M? Hello? They're made by the Mars company, so M&Ms makes more sense than TREATS! LOL! And as for Marathon bars, I remember those. They were sort of braided, and were chocolate covered caramel. I"m not too crazy about the name Snickers, though.