Abby Normal

[cosmolinguist]

Facebook in its infinite wisdom has decided that rather than see things posted by the people I've said I want to hear from, it'll hide a bunch of those at random and instead I'll see my friends liking and commenting on other stuff! Because that's better.

Thus it was that I accidentally clicked on the comments of a friend of mine saying to a stranger "Hey, remember me from high school?" I was just about to hit the back button because this is nothing to do with me when I saw the stranger's first comment, something like "yes, hello, how are you and kids?"

That's odd. I thought. Because my friend doesn't have kids.

I hate to think that it's because both of these people are women. Even if you haven't heard from someone in 20 years, the first thing you do is assume they've got children! Of course many people do, and that's great, but the expectation that everyone does makes me angry and sad.

There's been so much gender essentialism and heteronormativity in my life lately, largely because of work. The fact that the course we run happens over a year in residential blocks means the group ends up pretty tight-knit, and we eat meals together and those who want to drink together, so we end up talking about a lot of things.

What with this three-day block's evening ents (previous ones being actual fun things like ghost-story telling, secret Santa, and Burns night) being a 'hen night' for one course participant who's about to get married, and another being on her last block with this cohort before she starts maternity leave, there was a lot of talk about weddings and babies. All the e-mails flying around planning the hen night beforehand all felt so alien to me: pajamas and girly films and pink sashes and L plates.

But even worse than that was the way I noticed the mealtime conversation so often focusing on how nice it was for people (almost all women, because we're dealing with nurses and similar health professionals) to be away from home, yet how worried they were at their husbands' and/or kids' ability to cope without them. Everyone assumes they'll have to make lots of hand-holdy phone calls.

It sounds shocking to me now but I certainly remember the few times my mom was away overnight when I was growing up there were lots of jokes about how we'd only eat frozen pizza and my dad would never manage. My dad's a lovely, amazing guy but he's never learned to cook because he's always had someone to do that for him. He only started doing laundry when my mom had the triple whammy of illness, surgery to fix it, and complications from the surgery which meant she was in lots of pain and could hardly move.

I always felt bad for my mom and all the "second shift" work she did, but I now find myself saying "never mind, I'll do it myself, it's just easier" exactly like she did. It baffles me, and bothers me. I don't think my relationship with Andrew is particularly governed by gender roles (I like to say I have all the gender roles, since not only does he not cook or clean but he doesn't drink beer or watch sports either) but no doubt I have been socialized to pick up the slack and to expect that this is life will be like.

Maybe it is just coincidence that Andrew has the overvalued skills that can pay the rent and bills and I have the part-time job that still leaves me time and energy for housework and errands (just about...sometimes...), but here we are, fitting into the patterns of our parents and our heteronormative society whether we like it or not.

Comments

[quirkytizzy]

I, too, have gotten the occasional "Haven't seen you since HS! How are your kids?" from someone else.

"Uhm, they are fuzzy. Fuzzy and wear collars."

"What?"

"I have cats."

I have always found it bizarre to be in a group of women, like regular women with regular lives, because you're right - it all seems to revolve around kids and whatnot. And I can see why, for them, that's their lives and that's good. But I rarely have anything to contribute to those conversations.

And I so get the worry about hand holding. All of my ex's have been like that - incompetent in household duties. Some through just honestly not knowing, some through being assholes, and a few from sheer immaturity. And of course, of the people I've had those trouble with were men.

I don't know if it's gender, specifically, though. Outside of just that men are not conditioned to know stuff or do stuff like that. I don't think women are taking up the slack because we are "supposed" to. (Though I do think that's why a lot of men THINK we should pick up the slack.)

I think it's because we know if we don't do it, it won't get done. Dirty dishes don't give a fig about what gender the person washing them is.

Of course, I say all this and am saying, in the back of my head "Men are slobs."

[cosmolinguist]

I, too, have gotten the occasional "Haven't seen you since HS! How are your kids?"

I had never heard of or even imagined such a thing before!

But then it probably helps that I have hardly ever talked to anyone I went to high school with since (and that even if I were likely to they'd all know I'm Chris's Sister Who Moved to England because it's such a small town. My mom's always telling me what random people I went to high school with are doing, even though I remember this for about 30 seconds), but even if I did I wouldn't start with "how are your kids?" Even apart from anything else, parents are people too and seem too-seldom related to as themselves rather than just as a life-support system for their kids.

And I so get the worry about the hand holding.

The terrible thing is, I do too. :) Andrew's bad at a thing called executive function, which is because he's on the autism spectrum, not because he's a guy, but some of the effects end up being the same as what people think of as "typical guy being terrible at stuff guys are terrible at." Like he knows the garbage gets collected on Tuesday mornings, and he usually knows what day of the week it is, but he'd never think "it is Monday night, I should put the garbage out so it gets taken away tomorrow morning!" (I had actually reminded him to do this when I was gone last Monday.) It isn't that he doesn't care or thinks it's my job, it just...doesn't connect, in his head. So yes, I do a lot of hand-holding too, and sometimes it bugs me but mostly I get that it's because he's autistic and I'm not, I'm helping him with stuff that's easy for me just like he helps me with stuff that's hard for me (I made him do the online shopping and paying-for-things and sorting out anything to do with my computer really).

I don't know if it's gender, specifically, though. Outside of just that men are not conditioned to know stuff or do stuff like that.

Well, that's what I mean. And that women are conditioned. I certainly was (and am still constantly being made aware of every time I fall short in my mom's eyes...well, the ones she knows about at least). Women are also socialized to see their living space as a reflection of them and a comment on them; if it's tidy and decorative that speaks well of them, but if it's cluttered and chaotic it's okay to pass judgment on them as slovenly and of loose morals. I don't consciously think that's true or fair, and indeed personally find myself more comfortable visiting my houses that are a bit messy than ones that are pristine. But subconsciously I clearly do think it matters that things are tidy and neat, even beyond the point of pragmatism (because a certain amount of knowing-where-to-find-things and not-tripping-on-stuff-all-over-the-floor is arguably useful, but I sometimes care about things that have no such justification).

And it bugs me that I care, because it makes me unhappy when I needn't otherwise be (Andrew doesn't care what the house looks like, and thus is never unhappy about it!). And because it's at such a deep level, having been instilled at me from a young age, I don't seem able to do a lot about it. That bugs me, too.

[quirkytizzy]

I get the whole making judgements about a clean or messy home thing. I'm that way. Terribly so. I chalk it up to having lived with TWO men who lived in Level 2 Squalor. A total of 15 years of living with that between Pat and David.

http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/squalor/measuring.shtml

And David's parents were outright, full blown hoarders. Like, crawl around piles to get into bed kind of hoarders.

So I'm PARANOID and ANXIOUS and ON EDGE about how clean my house is now. SUPER. A pair of pants on the floor won't stay there for more than 24 hours without me getting anxious about it. And that's the problem - not so much that I don't want a pair of pants on my floor, but that it causes ANXIETY. That's where it goes from being just liking a clean house to a bit of a neurosis.

And like you, I can't seem to do anything about it. :( I don't know what to do, or if like I tried to relax, the mess would get out of control.

And I try, I really do try to keep my brain quiet about moral judgements due to someone else's house. But I seem to attract slobs. Like, one friend who smokes in her house and has two cats didn't vacuum for three years until I finally vacuumed for her! (And hasn't since vacuumed - and it's been a year!) ANd her shower is caked with BROWN stuff. I just...it makes me feel like a freak going over there, because it's not MY mess, it shouldn't bother ME, but it does....

Yeeks. I went on a hell of a ramble here. Sorry.

And there is something in there, in my judgeybrain, too, about a woman's virtue being tied to how clean her house is. I try to be enlightened about it, I do, but somedays....*sigh*

[rmc28]

I cannot imagine being so rude as to ask someone "how are your kids?" without actually knowing that the person had them. I can't imagine anyone doing it to me. I mean, I don't hide that I have children, but I'd notice if someone commented on them who I wouldn't expect to know. I mean, even people who I'm surprised know me and that I have children usually explain how they know (e.g. friends of my parents who introduced themselves to me at LDConf would say things like "and Ruth tells me she is a grandmother now")

Is this a British vs US thing? Or am I just exceptionally lucky?

[cosmolinguist]

Hm, maybe it is? Because my Facebook friend and quirkytizzy who said it's happened to her are both American. I have no idea. As I said above, I can't glean much information from the fact that it's never happened to me; everyone I grew up with already knows about me. :)

[rmc28]

The "how will my menfolk cope without me" stuff though, that happens ALL THE TIME here. People at work keep being surprised that e.g. Tony cooked the food I bring in for lunch, though at least him doing the school run is acceptable these days.

[mezbg.livejournal.com]

I thought you'd left Facebook or were only using it for essential events-based stuff. Has it sucked you back into its evil vortex?
I've been off Facebook for almost two months now, not deactivated, actually DELETED (although it is a very fiddly process and you have to wait over two weeks and be subjected to all sorts of blackmaily: Are you absolutely sure? messages.), and it's brilliant. So freeing. :)

ION I think it's hard not to fit into some kind of pattern one way or another, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's your reaction to the pattern and the approach to life which counts. It's not necessary to be 100% different, and I don't think it's really possible to be honest. Human nature is human nature and so obviously certain behaviours and trends are destined to repeat themselves.

Everybody is winging it pretty much, I think, it's just some people are better at hiding that than others, and many find that the only way to get through is to cling onto stereotypes or follow the crowd. The fact that life is totally random and that we have so little real control over what happens to us is a pretty mind-blowing thing, that's why religion makes it all easier - you just delegate. What I'm trying to say is that I think you and A have got your focus right and the fact that some of your stuff coincides with heteronormative society or wevs, well, it's no biggie.

x

[cosmolinguist]

Oh I don't mind fitting stereotypes in general -- I realized when I was very young that making a point of bucking the trend meant you were as trend-driven as any dedicated follower of fashion. What I mind is when the stereotypes are bad, like this one -- "women have to work hard because they have to expect that their men will be useless" -- and when I look like I'm going along with it but don't feel like I am. It's that disjunction of appearance and conviction that gets me, in exactly the same way that most of the world will think I'm straight and monogamous but I don't.

[mezbg.livejournal.com]

Ah. I get you. It's a still an issue with worrying about what other people think though, isn't it? And how you appear to the outside world. Many people are obtuse though, so short of wearing a T-shirt with a slogan on it or giving everyone you meet a short essay about your principles and lifestyle, I don't think there is much you can do to mend the situation on an overall scale. I continue to think that, frustrating as it may be, it doesn't really matter that much in the great scheme of things, the people who are important to you and people worthy of consideration recognise you and your life for what they are. x

[haggis.livejournal.com]

One of my favourite bloggers, Andie Fox/Blue Milk has written about this particular knotty problem A LOT. She is a feminist economist and mother who writes a lot about the intersections between motherhood, feminism and worklife balance. A couple of her posts on the subject are here http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/before-we-call-a-truce-on-the-chore-war-2/ and http://bluemilk.wordpress.com/2014/04/12/if-we-cant-be-equal-can-you-at-least-be-grateful/.

Some of the big things I've learned from reading her blog are that
- The planning / monitoring / organising / tracking parts of housework is *work* and is generally not accounted for. It almost always falls to the woman (in a mixed gender relationship) to do that work
- It is hard to renegotiate this balance because even when it is not deliberate, it is much easier not to be the one who does less so there is a lot of resistance.
- The work of renegotiating a fair work balance is also hard and generally falls women. This is particularly hard when you are already overwhelmed.

[haggis.livejournal.com]

*nods* If it helps, it's a difficult problem is because it's *hard* and hard for both sides. It's the kind of issue that's easy to dismiss because it's a domestic thing and therefore coded as a female problem AND considered trivial.

I struggle to negotiate this with D because I find it difficult to relinquish control and also I have lots of frustration which my own failure to do as much as I should, which makes it hard to negotiate. Also genuine health issues (like your's and like D's add a level of difficulty to negotiation.

[cosmolinguist]

Thanks for those links; it's very useful to read someone saying things I recognize so powerfully. It is a shame there are no easy answers, but it's something to have the questions articulated so thoroughly. I'll have to check out more of her blog.