I am a very un-magical mentalist right now

[cosmolinguist]

I wrote a long grumpy thing about the equivalent of the Magical Negro for mental illness (Magical Mentalist? I spent a lot of time the other day, while I was supposed to be watching a movie that finally solidified my dislike of this lazy and boring stereotype, wondering what its TV Tropes page should be called) but the accidentally deleted it.

Just as well, I suppose. I really wanted to write about something nice (thank you for all your kind and supportive replies to my last entry but thinking about the whole subject just depresses me so much I can't bear to reply to them any more), but I'm struggling to find anything. And sometimes it's still true that if you don't have anything nice to say you shouldn't say anything at all.

Comments

[magister]

What was the film? Be useful to know, so I can avoid it. It is a rather irritating trope.

[cosmolinguist]

It was The Quiet Ones, actually. It centers on the classic "young, waif-thin pale woman with dark hair and haunted eyes, who has violent tendencies because of the connection she has to whatever supernatural/occult thing that mere mortals do not." Like usual she spends a lot of the movie confined or restrained or drugged, "for her own good" but actually for that of Our Heroes who are trying to exploit her (this time ostensibly because of Science but it could be for a variety of reasons). Like usual they get to have personalities and life choices (though not terribly well-written in this case, I thought...yeah, the more I talk or think about this movie, the less I like it) but she gets no such autonomy or personality. I know it'll sound oversensitive to most people, or they'd say "well mental health treatment was always barbaric in the benighted 1970s" (when the film is set) but my problem of course isn't that it's not accurate but that it's not fun to watch, not a good portrayal of something that's still pretty misunderstood and badly-treated even at the best of times now.

[cosmolinguist]

...and here I have basically re-created a big chunk of the post I was saying probably deserved accidental deletion. :) Oh well.

[magister]

If it's any comfort, it's useful for me to know. Sounds pretty much par for the course, all in all. Shame, really.

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah it is a shame. I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

[andrewhickey.info]

The one point I would make is that the people doing the restraining etc weren't, to my mind, presented as Our Heroes so much as one Hubristical Enquirer Into That Which Is Better Not Known, his two Gullible Followers Who Do Not Understand The Forces With Which They Are Meddling, and one Ineffectual Protagonist Who Is Drawn In Against His Will And Protests.

I didn't have anything like as many problems with it as Holly, but I still thought its treatment of mental illness was pretty poor (though entirely par for the course for films of this type -- it's two parts classic haunted house story like The Others, two parts 70s Satanist horror, and one part post-Blair Witch pseudo-found-footage.

It actually reminded me most, though, of a film I saw at FFW two or three years ago. I don't remember the title, but you might have been there -- a film about a young actress given the opportunity to study at an acting school which was secretly based on the teachings of a 1970s cult leader. Don't know if you remember that one, but it was *very* similar in feel, technique, and attitude towards mental illness.

Other things about The Quiet Ones:
The ending is totally crap. There's an obvious revelation, which anyone who's ever seen a horror film will suspect, and then there's another possible revelation which anyone who's seen *two* horror films would think of and would make a more satisfying ending. They go for the one-horror-film ending.

The central performance, by the bloke playing the psychiatrist, is absolutely remarkable. Despite all the film's flaws it's almost worth watching just for that.

There are too many "BOO!" moments, which take away from the more atmospheric horror they're trying for.

The phrase "the quiet ones" is shoehorned into a piece of dialogue in a completely nonsensical way, suggesting that in an earlier draft of the script (and the script is credited as "based on a screenplay by", suggesting that at some point there was a page-one rewrite) there actually were some "quiet ones" that the title referred to, but they got written out and an explanation for the title had to be made up at the last minute.

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah, I agree with all the comments on the movie. (Almost. The good actor's acting was good, but I'm not sure it makes the movie worth watching on its own...I almost agree, but the character he's acting is not good enough to make me think it's worth it.)

It's a shame, when I was so impressed with The Woman in Black and when friends of mine said this was properly good and properly scary...those things got my hopes up too high, I guess.

[magister]

I know the film you mean, but can't remember the title. The actor playing the psychiatrist is Jared Harris, son of Richard Harris who was Professor Moriarty opposite Robert Downey Jnr as Sherlock Holmes - i thought he was excellent there too.

[cosmolinguist]

I thought I recognized him, but it isn't from that. Maybe he just seemed recognizable because I felt like I should know him; his performance was (at least at the beginning of the movie) really fun to watch.

[andrewhickey.info]

I can only think of three things he's been in that you might have seen at some point (only one of which I've seen myself) -- Ocean's Twelve, The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button, and an episode of Law & Order Special Victims Unit

[quirkytizzy]

I don't watch horror movies often, so I don't have as much exposure to the whole "crazy as a scrying tool" trope, but I know that it happens A LOT. THat's a really good point. I have had a few people claim I am sensitive to spirits (but only after they find out I'm crazy or have trauma or whatever) and that just cheapens the - what I think is MEANT to be - a compliment.

(I don't believe in any of that anyways, but still. Ugh.)

When someone's crazy is written as a plot point - as a conflict that the heroes must overcome and not as a personality trait for the crazy person themselves - soooo problematic.

[cosmolinguist]

"crazy as a scrying tool" is a fantastic way to put it! It'd have saved me a lot of inelegant words if I'd thought of those few elegant ones!

I guess the idea that being sensitive to spirits or what have you is meant to be some kind of "compensation" -- like people think "well it sucks that you're crazy, but at least you get this cool thing that non-crazy people don't! I'm so envious." Yeah, right. Better to approach mental health properly, so that peopel don't feel like the crazy among us are missing out, than to have such silly sensitivities to make up for it.

[quirkytizzy]

If it helps - that is a post I'd LOVE to read. I get so sick of the "Oh, you're mentally ill? Bi polar? That must mean you're really good at painting/writing/creative endeavours! That must mean you are SUPER INSIGHTFUL and SUPER COMPASSIONATE!"

Also these days a lot of people confuse "mental illness" with "Magic Pixie Dream Girl." Like my being crazy will lighten up their droll little world and show them how "not be so serious."

Uh, no, motherfucker. I take my crazy pretty seriously. My mental health is not a Footloose metaphor for your mind.

*headdesk*

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah, I thought of the MPDG similarities too -- though a bit less so in this particular instance because this was the horror-movie version, so instead of "extra creative and can brighten your dull life with a wacky but charming worldview" it's more "connected to the supernatural/occult and can be useful to you in finding out about that stuff you have nothing better to do than think about."

But it's similarly "this magic person can show you things no sane person ever could" and similarly gross.

As I said to magister, I did end up saying most of what I had planned to, so it's still there. :)

[magister]

Yeah - it's the idea that the only part of the person that's worth paying any attention to is the illness - either because it makes them dangerous or because it means that they are freed from traditional norms and can say and do things that ordinary people cannot.

Please imagine Malcolm Tucker shouting "Oh, fuck off" at this stage, because I can't imagine anyone else saying it with the disgust and venom that this idea inspires in me.

As far as the whole "wacky & charming worldview" bit goes, I'd like to invite anyone who thinks this is a worthwhile trope - please live for a while with a condition which, on bad days, affects your entire view of the world and also your reactions to it as well as causing you to second guess every thought you have because you can't tell whether it's coming from sound logical foundations or a baseless quagmire of paranoia and fear. This has been a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of - oh something or other. Put something witty here and tell people I said it.

As for Magic Pixie Dream Girls, the only reason that trope hasn't inspired a life long loathing of ukeleles in me is that George Formby did that about 35 years ago.

[quirkytizzy]

"As far as the whole "wacky & charming worldview" bit goes, I'd like to invite anyone who thinks this is a worthwhile trope - please live for a while with a condition which, on bad days, affects your entire view of the world and also your reactions to it as well as causing you to second guess every thought you have because you can't tell whether it's coming from sound logical foundations or a baseless quagmire of paranoia and fear. This has been a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of - oh something or other."

BOOM. YES.

[magister]

Thank you.

Mentally ill is one of the things which I am. Others include such diverse elements as geeky, tall, allergic to pollen, bi, poly, numerate, able to swear in 3 different languages and tone deaf. They are all parts of me. There is not one of them which defines me in itself, although they each go some way to doing that.

There was a documentary by Stephen Fry a few years ago on life as a person who is bi-polar. One of the things he said was that he'd rather remain as he is because he was worried that otherwie he'd lose his creativity.

Fuck that. I'd rather not have something which tries to fuck up elements of my life by whispering in my ear that the good things in my life - and there are many of them - are either worthless or non-existent.

[quirkytizzy]

YES about the whole "I'd rather not lose my creativity" bullshit. Most days, I'm okay with my crazy and I know I wouldn't be who I am without it (and I like who I am), but if I could choose NOT to have it? WHERES THE PEN I WILL SIGN THAT IN BLOOD NO PROBLEM GET THE BANDAID READY RIGHT NOW.

I am always grateful to have found words and labels that fit me - but if I had my 'druthers, there are lots of other labels I would have picked. But these are the ones I have, so these are the ones I make do with.

I love your list of things you are. I wish I could curse in three languages! I do not know one of those words - what's a numerate?

[cosmolinguist]

Numerate is like literate, but with numbers instead of reading.

[quirkytizzy]

Oh hey, that sounds kind of cool! I'm like the anti numerate, then? If I'm understanding this right? I have about a 7th grade 10/11 year old math level. No matter how much I try or how many classes I take, I just can't seem to get any further. Numerate sounds really useful.

[magister]

Now, if I were Stephen Fry and had parlayed my creativity into being immensely rich and able to do pretty much anything I wanted, with admittedly the downside of having to work with Alan Davies, then I'd possibly be worried about losing that. As things stand, such creativity as I have has led to a few dozen blog posts, several short stories and the ability to rant.

My experiences of being fucking miserable from time to time can be useful in my job - I work as a telephone adviser to people who have problems with debt, so it maybe adds a little empathy. On the other hand, on days when I toy with the idea of using a bent nail to hook my brain, drag it out through my ear and beat it with a stick until it stops twitching - the amount of consolation that being slightly better at my job gives me is pretty much the thin end of fuck all. So, yes - I'll cheerfully sign in blood for that and would even consider sacrificing certain less frequently used body parts - I'd probably go as high as a foot and a variety of internal organs.

As for cursing in 3 languages - "va t'emmerder" is the French equivalent of "fuck you", while "geh bitte scheissen, du blodes arschloch" is German for "go fuck yourself, you stupid asshole". Sadly I can't write it phonetically, so it's not much help for pronunciation, but they say every little helps.

[andrewhickey.info]

I know how to say, in German, "stick out your hot curly cock and fuck me, you ugly son of a bitch. Make it go fast, magical pig, in and out, until it squirts fire. Don't get no jizz on that sofa".

Bilingual Frank Zappa lyrics -- http://www.lyricsfreak.com/f/frank+zappa/stick+it+out_20056742.html -- because you never know when that might come in handy.

[cosmolinguist]

Yeah but your pronunciation is terrible. Plus I don't think you'd like it if anyone took you at your word there.

[cosmolinguist]

WHERES THE PEN I WILL SIGN THAT IN BLOOD NO PROBLEM GET THE BANDAID READY RIGHT NOW

This made me laugh. Because I completely agree with the sentiment, and because I love "get the bandaid ready!"

[cosmolinguist]

One of the things he said was that he'd rather remain as he is because he was worried that otherwie he'd lose his creativity.

I've heard this argument so many times, but it still makes no more sense to me than it did at first. The existence of so many people who are creative without being tortured by their own brains indicate that creativity doesn't need mental illness. I guess it's a story people tell to come to terms with their mental illness -- it is, as I said above, thought to be a kind of compensation: well maybe you can't live a "normal" life or even trust your own thoughts but hey, it makes you a creative genius! Oh, that's all right then.

And...maybe this is just because I've never reached the heights of creativity that Stephen Fry has, but any joy I've gotten from writing or making music or anything just doesn't seem worth the mental anguish. Even if better mental health did have to mean sacrificing creativity, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

And it's not only my paltry creative efforts I'd swap. Stephen Fry has brought much happiness to my life but even if I had to trade my Fry & Laurie DVDs and my copy of Making History -- and the memories of ever having enjoyed them, which I have, lots! -- to make him well, I'd do it without a second thought.

Even if mental health required such a ludicrous price of entry, I think it'd be worth paying for. But it doesn't anyway. So yeah, fuck that so many ways.

[magister]

Yeah. Sounds like we see this the same way then. Also with regard to Fry - on the one hand, he's miserable a lot of the time. On the other hand, he gets to be remembered as the smug one in - well, pretty much everything he's ever been in.

[cosmolinguist]

On the other hand, he gets to be remembered as the smug one in - well, pretty much everything he's ever been in.

When you put it that way, it's a career I can see you being good at, yourself. :)

I do love your rants, but I always feel bad for enjoying them as much as I do, because they're always about something you violently dislike and even before I loved you that seemed like an unfair thing to enjoy about a person. But it is truly an art form in your hands.

Still, I'd swap it and my own feet if your brain would only stop being so heartbreakingly vile and doing so many things to you of which I so vehemently disapprove.

[magister]

Thank you, Holly. <3

[andrewhickey.info]

It makes sense to me. I would *never* say that mental illness *causes* creativity, or that all mentally ill people are creative, or even that there's a correlation, and I *DEFINITELY* wouldn't say that anyone should choose to remain ill.

But...

Remember the mental state I was in when I was writing the Seven Soldiers book? That freewheeling mental connection thing with the ideas just sparking off? That DEFINITELY came from EXACTLY the same thing that makes me paranoid and contributes to my depression -- and the person I am when I'm writing that stuff is the me I think is *most* me, if you see what I mean.

If you told me that I could get rid of my mental illnesses, but I would never again write anything like http://andrewhickey.info/2011/07/03/9-mister-miracle/ ... I wouldn't do it. And I do strongly suspect that getting rid of my illnesses altogether (as opposed to finding ways to compensate for them, cope with them, and channel them productively) *would* cause that.

Which doesn't mean that it's true for anyone else, or that anyone else should make the same tradeoff. Just that I see exactly where Fry was coming from.

[magister]

Has to be said - I was looking at this from my own point of view and going by my own experiences. It's something where each case is going to be different.

[andrewhickey.info]

Oh absolutely. I wouldn't suggest for a nanosecond that anyone should make the same choice as me, even were we able to make that choice (which sadly we're not).

[quirkytizzy]

Do you mind if I link this entry in a post of mine? It's making for an awesome soundboard entry.

[cosmolinguist]

I don't mind at all, no. It seems such a placeholder entry -- here I'll write that I'm not writing about something! -- but if it's any use to you, I'm delighted.

[bethanthepurple.livejournal.com]

I hope something nice comes up soon x

[cosmolinguist]

Tomorrow should be nice. I am going shopping for a NEW BIKE with a friend who knows about bikes. I haven't had one for a couple of years now.

And then my lovely boyfriend is coming to Manchester and he and my lovely husband and I are going to see a guy performing M.R. James stories. We saw him a few months ago (well James and I did, Andrew was sick that day) and he was ACES and I am really excited to get to see him again.

So yeah, that'll be good. In the meantime I've gotten enough work done that I don't feel as freaked out and miserable as I did yesterday, and that's good too. And my friends have been so lovely; I think that fb post must have sounded worse than I meant it to because people were really extraordinarily sweet to me (you included!) and I was like "...this is all within normal parameters for me...?" but even though I was confused I was, and am, very grateful for the response.