[242/365] autonomous cars
Aug. 30th, 2022 10:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cosmolinguistThis morning I read so much about self-driving vehicles and I struggled so much.
I struggled because I was (am) so tired, and because this stuff is written by the government, but I also struggled because I just do. not. understand. what benefits we get from autonomous vehicles that we don't get from paying people decently to do work.
"Successful projects could help see groceries delivered to customers or shuttle pods assisting passengers in airports." ...We already have that! As I read that, a guy in a van was about to deliver our groceries any minute! (He did and, yay, we have cheese and peanut butter again!)
Like, I know as a blind person I'm supposed to love this. My dad spent my whole childhood telling me cars will drive themselves one day so I can have one after all. And I do know blind people who are extremely excited about the prospect of self-driving cars. But I just can. not. make myself care.
Trying to imagine being in a taxi with a driver, relying on their skills and biases, does not feel fundamentally different to me from riding in an autonomous pod, relying on computer code, i.e. lots of people's distributed skills and biases.
I'm not even that interested in the details right now. I'm unlikely to have the option any time soon so I don't think I need an opinion on whether I'd get into one now; by the time I could, the software will be different and there will be a lot more data. For these purposes I'm imagining a hypothetical future where they feel "as safe" as being in a car with a human driver, whatever that feeling of safety means.
But whatever nebulous future l may have as a passenger in an autonomous car, I am more certain to encounter them, and sooner, as a blind pedestrian, as someone who doesn't necessarily act the way that their software has been trained to expect. As someone who can't hear them (assuming that autonomous cars are also electric; these vehicles are currently too quiet for me to detect), I'd like to hear more about blind people interacting with them in this way and not as single-minded beneficiaries of what feels like suffocating access.[1]
Also bragging about this as a job-creation scheme is fucking hilarious. Creating 38,000 jobs allegedly; when this happens it'll take away millions of people's jobs.
Which isn't necessarily bad! They're shitty jobs for the most part, yes! People might not miss them! (Though, knowing people like Andrew's dad, I think there will always be people who genuinely enjoy certain kinds of taxi driving. It suited him and he was good at it.) But we shouldn't be looking at increasing automation before we've sorted out a universal basic income that'll allow people to live without their shitty jobs. And that isn't going to happen in the UK any time soon.
Also I think about what "autonomous" means in the context of vehicles. My grandpa refused to fly, he'd drive for a week rather than get on a plane to see his daughter and grandkids. Once he said it was because he didn't like the idea of giving up control. My family, all in rural areas with no public transport, nodded sympathetically. I was in my teens or 20s then, and it was the first time I realized these abled people are used to a feeling of control (however illusory) over their movements that I never have. When there's no question about "giving up" control over transporting myself, it's just a matter of who I'm giving it up to. In my line of work people talk about blind and partially sighted people "traveling independently" and once you get past walking, we never mean "literally without other people." We actually need other people more than sighted, abled people do: we don't want trains to lose their staff or ticket offices in train stations to lose theirs.
"Independence" for disabled people always means shining a light on the illusion that anyone can ever be totally independent or in control on their own. Car drivers depend on so many levels of manufacture and maintenance and supply chain, I don't feel like much is changed if I add one more level of being dependent on someone else to drive me around, whether it's a person or software.
[1] The quote I'm thinking of there from John Lee Clark is: "Such a frenzy around access is suffocating. I want to tell them, Listen, I don’t care about your whatever.... The arrogance is astounding. Why is it always about them? Why is it about their including or not including us? Why is it never about us and whether or not we include them?"
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-31 12:35 pm (UTC)Benefits for me:
Don't get exposed to COVID and other viruses from the driver
Don't get a migraine from the driver smelling of cigarette smoke/body spray/spray on deoderant/perfume (this was even an issue with Uber Eats - sometimes the food arrived REEKING of the drivers bodyspray
Don't get subject to a racist tirade about how [insert marginalised racial identity here] taxi drivers are no good from a white taxi driver, who then explodes angrily at me if I say "actually, I've found [insert marginalised racial identity here] to be excellent taxi drivers, most of the problems I've had have been with white British taxi drivers"
Don't get subject to ableist microagressions
Don't get subject to misogynist microaggressions
Don't get subject to transphobic microaggressions (I've had this happen once, despite being cis!)
Less likely to speed and drive erratically/dangerously
Less likely to mount the footpath/mount the kerb while driving at 60km/hour to save time (yes, I've had taxi drivers do this to avoid traffic calming devices or to save time, its dangerous and physically painful)
Downsides for me:
Can't assist with luggage
Can't assist with getting a power wheelchair inside and applying the tiedown clamps
Can't deviate from standard operating procedure, even if needed for access reasons
Can't apply first aid in an emergency
Can't say "Passenger seems to be having an emergency, so I will deviate to an emergency department"
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-31 12:54 pm (UTC)[Off topic ish]
Thanks for reminding me about John Lee Clarke, I reread that essay from the access is suffocating quote again, followed him on Twitter and have bought his book on Kindle to read. I know I last read the essay relatively recently after using a series of BSL/English interpreters for my hydro and really noticed the difference between those who read the room and offered me options and those who did nothing beyond the basics (and in 1 case needed prompting to interpret and didn't interpret a loud BANG! that made all the hearies flinch). I don't think the rigid "access only" rules of ASL/English interpreters is as strong here in the UK but with interpreters you don't know, you're less likely to get the "usefully-biased" stuff because that gets built up with regular working or to some extent how you as the deaf user instruct the interpreter to your wishes (a work in progress for me)
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-31 05:26 pm (UTC)The problem is that for wheelchair users, buses and trains are often physically unsafe due to rapid acceleration/deceleration; forcefully turning corners; and lack of anchor points for wheelchairs.
My powerchair was FLIPPED ACROSS THE BUS AISLE FROM THE RIGHT OF THE AISLE TO THE LEFT OF THE AISLE when a bus turned a corner - I landed hard on my hip on the floor, with 150 kilograms of powerchair on top of me. The spot I landed in would usually have had a baby or a toddler in a pram/stroller in it - 150kg of powerchair plus me could well have killed a baby/toddler. I've had hip pain ever since [my hip didn't hurt at all before this] and that was maybe 10 years ago now.
If you're thinking "well, that was just one bad bus driver"
a) the authorities reviewed the CCTV footage and deemed it normal/safe driving
b) buses not being safe for wheelchair users is a known issue worldwide
There is always going to be a need for wheelchair taxis.
There's also the issue of people who can't take public transport because exposure to other people's spray on deodorant/body spray/perfume in an enclosed unventilated space can cause migraines that last 3 or 4 days. Some of these people use wheelchairs, but a lot of them don't.
Which is to say: I am all in favour of better-funded public transport - I'd actually like to see public transport be COMPLETELY FREE for anyone earning less than the poverty line - but I get very concerned when people seem to be saying "public transport will meet everyone's needs"
(no subject)
Date: 2022-09-01 09:16 am (UTC)I avoid buses and to some extent trains for similar reasons to your above. I can't count how many injuries I've had as a currently ambulant person with poor balance and dodgy arms.
Some folks will always need their own personalised transport (if they or a person they have available can drive it!), others will always need a taxi-style option.
I think we should do all of it. Make access to transport and travel easier/cheaper/better for disabled people AND make the transport safer and better for everyone.
Reduced personal vehicles on the road will make all of the above things safer and better for everyone including disabled people.
I also don't think we are imaginative enough with things. We need disabled people at the transport design/implementation stage of stuff so buses aren't driven horribly or able to tip like they do and trains aren't hell to get in/out of or traverse etc.
Imagine if a taxi driver didn't need to drive like a maniac to get somewhere cos they were properly paid and the traffic was a lot less...
(no subject)
Date: 2022-08-31 03:01 pm (UTC)My big fear is the AI visual systems will be taught humans are two-legged erect figures, with obvious implications for those of us who come with wheels, or with one leg and crutches, and so on. It's an obvious mistake to make given the history of bias in AI-learning, but I've not heard anything to convince me they're not doing it. It's pretty obvious the pedestrian killed by an autonomous car in Arizona wasn't identified because they were pushing a bike - the vehicle apparently classified her as 'unknown', then 'a vehicle', and finally as 'a bicycle', but only decided emergency braking was needed 4.7s after spotting her/1.3s before impact.
And I'm really not in favour of the government's assumption that any crash of a car with autonomous driving capabilities enabled will be the fault of the other driver, as that's going to make people try and switch on the autonomous systems if they're about to have an accident, which is the worst possible thing you could do.
All true.
Date: 2022-08-31 11:13 pm (UTC)I admit I only glanced at the papers you linked, but the rubbing-hands-together "this is new!" enthusiasm is entirely unwarranted.
"Independence" for disabled people always means shining a light on the illusion that anyone can ever be totally independent or in control on their own.
Too right! In an earlier life I wrote up the work orders at the (worker owned) co-op garage. Our lives are brutally shaped by the massive infrastructure that makes it possible for people to own individual vehicles.
Re: All true.
Date: 2022-09-01 08:29 pm (UTC)Oh I wouldn't expect anyone to do more than glance at those links! They're just there as an indication of why I was struggling. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2022-09-01 03:33 am (UTC)Thank you for the insight into how much control is an illusion for all of us, abled and disabled alike. I forget that a lot in being abled and expected to exercise that "control."
(no subject)
Date: 2022-09-01 08:29 pm (UTC)Yeah one day we might have mostly-autonomous cars on the road that can just seamlessly communicate with each other, but the process of getting there is not going to be pretty.